Author Topic: 2013 Recruiting Thread  (Read 954937 times)

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catzacker

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2750 on: March 27, 2013, 03:48:30 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.

i think the fallacy is that it's what you would expect from him every year. 

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2751 on: March 27, 2013, 03:50:52 PM »
how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

there's no connection between the quality of our offense and angel being here to bail us out of late shot clock situations.

sure there is

all offenses have late shot clock situations, regardless of how you define a quality offense.  angel being here to bail us out does not make our offense better.  the number of the late shot clock situations has nothing to do with angel being here to bail us out of them.

If you have a better player to bail you out in late shot clock situations, you score more points, your offense is better.


how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

Did he really do this all that much?  I know these types of things are quite difficult to quantify.  I remember after Beasley and Pullen left thinking this about them.   

Yes, he did it all the time, and did it very well. It would have been great if he was allowed to drive earlier in the shot clock when not everyone knew what was coming.

Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.

This sounds made up.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2752 on: March 27, 2013, 04:00:32 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.

i think the fallacy is that it's what you would expect from him every year.

He doesn't create his own shots.  He can drive if the defense breaks down, but you can't rely on that happening.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2753 on: March 27, 2013, 04:04:47 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.

This sounds made up.

You don't believe that people used to say it all the time?  As far as I know, they still do.

Offline michigancat

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2754 on: March 27, 2013, 04:05:50 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.

This sounds made up.

You don't believe that people used to say it all the time?  As far as I know, they still do.

Oh, people may have said it, but I'm sure they were making it up.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2755 on: March 27, 2013, 04:06:07 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

who said its binary?  pretty sure many teams with many styles of offense have struggled in late game situations.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2756 on: March 27, 2013, 04:08:04 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.

i think the fallacy is that it's what you would expect from him every year.

He doesn't create his own shots.  He can drive if the defense breaks down, but you can't rely on that happening.

you're wrong about this. He creates shots both for him and other people.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2757 on: March 27, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.

i think the fallacy is that it's what you would expect from him every year.

He doesn't create his own shots.  He can drive if the defense breaks down, but you can't rely on that happening.

you're wrong about this. He creates shots both for him and other people.

Creating a dependable shot in a late game situation is a different sort of thing.  His little drive and lob, for example, isn't always going to be there.  The kind of shots you can reproduce at any given moment are things like shooting a deep three over someone or driving to create space then stepping back to shoot a jump shot.  That stuff just doesn't seem to be part of his game.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2758 on: March 27, 2013, 04:55:10 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.

i think the fallacy is that it's what you would expect from him every year.

He doesn't create his own shots.  He can drive if the defense breaks down, but you can't rely on that happening.

you're wrong about this. He creates shots both for him and other people.

Creating a dependable shot in a late game situation is a different sort of thing.  His little drive and lob, for example, isn't always going to be there.  The kind of shots you can reproduce at any given moment are things like shooting a deep three over someone or driving to create space then stepping back to shoot a jump shot.  That stuff just doesn't seem to be part of his game.

I don't think anyone at the college level has a "dependable" late game shot. He needs to improve, for sure, but his drive/layup/dish can be just as dependable as most step back jumpers, especially at this level.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2759 on: March 27, 2013, 04:57:23 PM »
If you have a better player to bail you out in late shot clock situations, you score more points, your offense is better.

again, late clock situations are a result of an offense, not a part of one.  every team in the nation handles them the same way. 


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Offline michigancat

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2760 on: March 27, 2013, 05:01:36 PM »
If you have a better player to bail you out in late shot clock situations, you score more points, your offense is better.

again, late clock situations are a result of an offense, not a part of one.  every team in the nation handles them the same way. 

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. I am talking purely about how many points we would have scored per possession. How the offense "looked" was probably a bad term to use.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2761 on: March 27, 2013, 05:03:19 PM »
his drive/layup/dish can be just as dependable as most step back jumpers, especially at this level.

Sounds like we agree that he's not good in late game situations.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2762 on: March 27, 2013, 05:04:43 PM »
his drive/layup/dish can be just as dependable as most step back jumpers, especially at this level.

Sounds like we agree that he's not good in late game situations.

He's above average but could be better.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2763 on: March 27, 2013, 05:05:17 PM »
If you have a better player to bail you out in late shot clock situations, you score more points, your offense is better.

again, late clock situations are a result of an offense, not a part of one.  every team in the nation handles them the same way. 

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. I am talking purely about how many points we would have scored per possession. How the offense "looked" was probably a bad term to use.

you said- how bad would the offense have been without angel to bail us out of late shot clock situations?

i'm saying that the quality of our offense (good or bad) was not impacted by having angel on our team to bail us out of late clock situations.  it was your strawman, not mine.


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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2764 on: March 27, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »
i'm saying that the quality of our offense (good or bad) was not impacted by having angel on our team to bail us out of late clock situations.  it was your strawman, not mine.

If by "quality of offense" you mean "points per possession", then the "quality of offense" was absolutely impacted by having Angel on the team. If you want "quality of offense" to mean something else, you could be right.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2765 on: March 27, 2013, 05:13:29 PM »
All things being equal(coach, motion offense, other players on team) Angel absolutely helped us out on late clock situations.

If we ran a different offense that increase our pace and didn't run as much clock and thus didn't create a lot of late clock situations, then I could see it not mattering. That said, our personnel are all wrong for that so saying that about Angel would basically mean that it just isn't the offense, but the players that force us into such situations.


catzacker

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2766 on: March 27, 2013, 05:50:27 PM »
Traditionally, up tempo offenses are thought to struggle in late game situations because they can't slow down and get a good shot.  You guys are hilarious with the crap you make up.

I agree that Angel isn't the kind of guy who bails you out.  The end of the La Salle game is exactly what you should expect from him.

i think the fallacy is that it's what you would expect from him every year.

He doesn't create his own shots.  He can drive if the defense breaks down, but you can't rely on that happening.

I guess I wouldn't characterize it as he doesn't as if he won't.  He could do a better job, but he isn't bad at it.  I think he will get better over the next 2 years.

Offline SuperG

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2767 on: March 27, 2013, 06:49:09 PM »
Who's idea was it to put this in the recruiting thread? One of The Five I'd presume.

 :billdance: :billdance: :billdance: :billdance: :billdance:

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2768 on: March 27, 2013, 06:51:52 PM »
i'm saying that the quality of our offense (good or bad) was not impacted by having angel on our team to bail us out of late clock situations.  it was your strawman, not mine.

If by "quality of offense" you mean "points per possession", then the "quality of offense" was absolutely impacted by having Angel on the team. If you want "quality of offense" to mean something else, you could be right.

i'm talking about oscar's offense, you know?  the offense.  the same one we've been talking about all season.  offense.  by the time you're in a late clock situation, the offense has already broken down.  the 1-4 flat isn't part of our offense.  why did our offense break down?  maybe it sucks.  maybe we're being overcoached. 


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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2769 on: March 27, 2013, 06:52:26 PM »
Who's idea was it to put this in the recruiting thread? One of The Five I'd presume.

 :billdance: :billdance: :billdance: :billdance: :billdance:

IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT!


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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2770 on: March 27, 2013, 08:54:39 PM »
I would have liked to see JO more in late shot clock situations.  He was very deadly in the LaSalle game taking guys off the dribble and getting "shots on the rim.". He even yacked one down.

Pretty sure the retards slobbering over ARTs "late shot clock" skills are the same retards that attributed his low shooting percentage in games to having to take more "late shot clock" shots.  Not sure how missing shots translates into good offense, but whatevs.  I guess if your going to take rediculous positions on things (eg Oakland is lovely) you might as well be consistently ridiculous.
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2771 on: March 27, 2013, 09:15:34 PM »
The thing is, most of the time we were pretty good in late game situations scoring the ball. It was not getting stops that hurt us (@ISU, @OSU) more than offense.

The weird thing about the La Salle game is that the offense didn't come through down the stretch, mainly because we didn't make plays. And there were numerous opportunities; just look at the last 7 minutes after we took our first lead on Rod's lay-up.

JO fouled, makes 1 of 2.
Shane missed a jumper, Angel oboarded, was fouled, missed the front end.
Rod missed 3, Shane oboarded, JO made put back.
Rod missed lay-up (contested, but still).
Tay missed lay-up, Gip missed tip-in.
Shane missed jumper, JO oboarded/fouled, went 1 of 2.
Rod missed 3.
JO missed jumper.
Angel missed prayer.

9 possessions. 0 turnovers. 3 trips to the FT line get 2 points. Missed lay-ups.

All year in a clutch situations we never had a stretch with so many missed plays and at the worst possible moment we really only made one. The last play is easy to point out because we all remember it well, but there were a ton of plays down the stretch this team simply didn't make.


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Re: Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2772 on: March 27, 2013, 09:20:14 PM »


Pretty sure the retards slobbering over ARTs "late shot clock" skills are the same retards that attributed his low shooting percentage in games to having to take more "late shot clock" shots. 

you're very astute

Offline yosh

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2773 on: March 27, 2013, 09:25:16 PM »
I can't believe two pages of muck was generated in a recruiting thread becuase somebody essentially said "good players make you better offensively"

rough ridin' genius.

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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread
« Reply #2774 on: March 27, 2013, 09:28:33 PM »
I can't believe two pages of muck was generated in a recruiting thread becuase somebody essentially said "good players make you better offensively"

rough ridin' genius.

I'll take the blame. I added the #BID/recruiting comment and that turned it.