Author Topic: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not  (Read 135199 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #300 on: March 16, 2017, 09:24:37 AM »
Consistent second place finishes in a mid major league tells more about a coach's abilities than a guy who has a lucky conference tourney run and then beats a 5 and a 13 seed to make it to the second weekend

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #301 on: March 16, 2017, 09:24:51 AM »


Unless it's a conference championship, where you finish in conference means nothing without a tournament run.

That's just my opinion, but you are dumb if you disagree with it.

what does a tournament run mean if you don't win the championship?

A tourney run means a lot because people believe it means a lot. Just like the dollar bills in the coach's pockets.

Offline Pete

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #302 on: March 16, 2017, 09:30:23 AM »
Well put, KK.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #303 on: March 16, 2017, 09:32:02 AM »
Unless it's a conference championship, where you finish in conference means nothing without a tournament run.

That's just my opinion, but you are dumb if you disagree with it.

I get that, but I think mid major coaches need to prove to be excellent at their level for multiple entire seasons. Shaka finished 2nd 3 times, 4th 2 times, and 5th once at VCU. He had one incredible run at VCU his first year in the tournament and even though he got there 4 more times, he never got out of the 1st weekend, even with two 5 seeds.

I agree with michigan that tournament success has a lot to due with match ups (luck of the draw) and luck in games to get on a Sweet 16 (or better) run, especially when you are a lower seed like most mid major coaches. The true way to sustain tournament success on a yearly basis is to be really good in a P5 conference (top 3 in the Big 12) and get a 5th seed or better.

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #304 on: March 16, 2017, 09:33:06 AM »
at this point i'd be surprised if they canned oscar no matter the result.  it'd be a pretty gutsy move by a transitional AD. 


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Offline Joker

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #305 on: March 16, 2017, 09:34:57 AM »
Consistent second place finishes in a mid major league tells more about a coach's abilities than a guy who has a lucky conference tourney run and then beats a 5 and a 13 seed to make it to the second weekend

I agree.  And if you are consistently finishing at, or near, the top of the conference then you are likely to have a few decent tournament runs mixed in.

Give me a consistently competitive basketball team that is fun to watch.  Throw in a non-douchebag coach and we've got it made in the shade.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #306 on: March 16, 2017, 09:37:06 AM »


Unless it's a conference championship, where you finish in conference means nothing without a tournament run.

That's just my opinion, but you are dumb if you disagree with it.

what does a tournament run mean if you don't win the championship?

A tourney run means a lot because people believe it means a lot. Just like the dollar bills in the coach's pockets.
That's a good point for a sitting P5 coach. But not really relevant when evaluating candidates for open P5 positions. John Groce immediately comes to mind.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #307 on: March 16, 2017, 10:43:29 AM »
While the pool is basically the same, the value/availability/interest of certain coaches can change wildly year to year

I agree with that. I do think this is a greater factor for what's considered the top 10-15 jobs though. Most of the rank and file of college basketball programs will essentially be looking for either underpaid P6 head coaches or the hot high/mid major coaches of the moment; there will always plenty of those.

Yeah I agree with that

So why do you need an opening to know who's interested? That pool of underpaid P6 and up and comers will have the same pool of schools to select from - P5's that either fired their coach or got poached by a top 15 program or were underpaying.

It's been well reported that coaches generally don't like being approached if someone has the job currently. That makes sense to me, the thinking is "do I want to work for this person who treats their coach this way?" I think there are some cases where it's okay to gage interest if the job isn't open yet, like if the coach is clearly getting canned, like Kim Anderson; or if there is a clear tie to the candidate and the potential hiring school, or if the candidate and the AD share an agent.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #308 on: March 16, 2017, 10:46:30 AM »
at this point i'd be surprised if they canned oscar no matter the result.  it'd be a pretty gutsy move by a transitional AD.

Why would it be gusty? The fan base isn't clamoring for him to stay, not that it's going to be the acting ADs unilateral decision anyway.

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #309 on: March 16, 2017, 11:28:03 AM »
i don't really view it as the job of an interim ad to hire/fire coaches under these circumstances


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Offline michigancat

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #310 on: March 16, 2017, 11:30:14 AM »
It's been well reported that coaches generally don't like being approached if someone has the job currently.

Do you believe them when they say that? I don't. They love having their ego stroked and are smart enough to know which jobs have some likelihood of being open.

If I were a coach I would rather take over a program in good enough shape that they won't fire their sitting coach unless they had the right coach (me) lined up. Wouldn't you rather take over for oscar than Kim Anderson?

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #311 on: March 16, 2017, 12:51:58 PM »
at this point i'd be surprised if they canned oscar no matter the result.  it'd be a pretty gutsy move by a transitional AD.
There is zero chance oscar gets fired (unless he does something extremely unsavory off the court).  It's not going to happen.  I will give tremendous odds if someone wants to bet on it.

Offline Pete

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #312 on: March 16, 2017, 12:55:48 PM »
It's been well reported that coaches generally don't like being approached if someone has the job currently.

Do you believe them when they say that? I don't. They love having their ego stroked and are smart enough to know which jobs have some likelihood of being open.

If I were a coach I would rather take over a program in good enough shape that they won't fire their sitting coach unless they had the right coach (me) lined up. Wouldn't you rather take over for oscar than Kim Anderson?


Gun to my head, I bet they love be approached about jobs at anytime.  That's because I suspect that most of them are human beings, and not not human beings. 

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #313 on: March 16, 2017, 01:37:35 PM »
I think oscar should take the WSU job after Greggg goes to Indiana.

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #314 on: March 16, 2017, 01:58:05 PM »
at this point i'd be surprised if they canned oscar no matter the result.  it'd be a pretty gutsy move by a transitional AD.

Why would it be gusty? The fan base isn't clamoring for him to stay, not that it's going to be the acting ADs unilateral decision anyway.
Maybe "gutsy" wasn't the right word, but it would raise my eyebrow.  The fan base isn't clamoring for him to say, but its also not screaming bloody murder for his head like it was 2 and a half weeks ago or so.

After the OU loss, I said he was donezo because I didn't think Veatch (sp?) had any choice at that point.  Given how the last two weeks have played out, I think he has a choice now, and the path of least resistance is keeping things as is. 


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #315 on: March 16, 2017, 02:13:01 PM »
at this point i'd be surprised if they canned oscar no matter the result.  it'd be a pretty gutsy move by a transitional AD.

Why would it be gusty? The fan base isn't clamoring for him to stay, not that it's going to be the acting ADs unilateral decision anyway.
Maybe "gutsy" wasn't the right word, but it would raise my eyebrow.  The fan base isn't clamoring for him to say, but its also not screaming bloody murder for his head like it was 2 and a half weeks ago or so.

After the OU loss, I said he was donezo because I didn't think Veatch (sp?) had any choice at that point.  Given how the last two weeks have played out, I think he has a choice now, and the path of least resistance is keeping things as is.

And now we're back to the conversation we've had a million times; if you didn't think he was the man for the job 18 days ago how could you possibly think he's fit for the job now? If sportswriters and fans can recognize this, I'd like to think professionals in the field can too. If he does reaches the sweet 16, then I would think it becomes slightly tougher to fire him but I sure wouldn't extend him and I'd tell him that I wouldn't extend him.

Just a note about this, maybe it isn't important, maybe it isn't; but the AD position officially closes a week from tomorrow.

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #316 on: March 16, 2017, 02:22:04 PM »
again, it's not veatch's job to fire our basketball coach.  his job right now is to keep things together while the full time AD is hired.  day to day business crap, keep the lights on.  when the new AD is hired, he's the person who will be tasked with reviewing his stable of coaches and making fire/hire decisions. 


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Offline Pete

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #317 on: March 16, 2017, 02:27:40 PM »
Veatch's job is to do what his boss tells him to do.  Just like any employee.

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #318 on: March 16, 2017, 02:46:19 PM »
at this point i'd be surprised if they canned oscar no matter the result.  it'd be a pretty gutsy move by a transitional AD.

Why would it be gusty? The fan base isn't clamoring for him to stay, not that it's going to be the acting ADs unilateral decision anyway.
Maybe "gutsy" wasn't the right word, but it would raise my eyebrow.  The fan base isn't clamoring for him to say, but its also not screaming bloody murder for his head like it was 2 and a half weeks ago or so.

After the OU loss, I said he was donezo because I didn't think Veatch (sp?) had any choice at that point.  Given how the last two weeks have played out, I think he has a choice now, and the path of least resistance is keeping things as is.

And now we're back to the conversation we've had a million times; if you didn't think he was the man for the job 18 days ago how could you possibly think he's fit for the job now? If sportswriters and fans can recognize this, I'd like to think professionals in the field can too. If he does reaches the sweet 16, then I would think it becomes slightly tougher to fire him but I sure wouldn't extend him and I'd tell him that I wouldn't extend him.

Just a note about this, maybe it isn't important, maybe it isn't; but the AD position officially closes a week from tomorrow.
Listen, I'm not disagreeing with you re. whether I think oscar should get fired.

I'm saying that I don't think K-State fans are calling for oscar's head as loudly as they were several weeks ago.  I also think that most people in Veatch's position would probably prefer not to fire someone unless they had no choice.  The combination of oscar's last couple of weeks and the timing of Currie's departure make me think that it's unlikely oscar is canned this year.

I could be wrong about Veatch's hutzpah, but this is one of the reasons why I wasn't really dancing in the streets when Currie left. 


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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #319 on: March 16, 2017, 03:14:50 PM »
Veatch's job is to do what his boss tells him to do.  Just like any employee.

um, ok.  we want our full time AD to assess, hire and fire.  we do not want him to inherit a coach in oscar's position.  the reason why we want a good AD is because we want him to make those decisions, not be stuck with the decisions someone in an interim position has made.  we're talking about the biggest decisions an AD can make, not what to do with the rowing coach.  it could set the department back if the new AD comes in, hates oscar's guts and yet is stuck with him b/c goEMAW decided that the decision needed to be made without him.


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #320 on: March 16, 2017, 05:19:24 PM »
Veatch's job is to do what his boss tells him to do.  Just like any employee.

um, ok.  we want our full time AD to assess, hire and fire.  we do not want him to inherit a coach in oscar's position.  the reason why we want a good AD is because we want him to make those decisions, not be stuck with the decisions someone in an interim position has made.  we're talking about the biggest decisions an AD can make, not what to do with the rowing coach.  it could set the department back if the new AD comes in, hates oscar's guts and yet is stuck with him b/c goEMAW decided that the decision needed to be made without him.

I took Pete's post to mean that if Myers wants oscar fired, then oscar will be fired, new AD pending or not.

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Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #321 on: March 16, 2017, 06:16:44 PM »
Veatch's job is to do what his boss tells him to do.  Just like any employee.

um, ok.  we want our full time AD to assess, hire and fire.  we do not want him to inherit a coach in oscar's position.  the reason why we want a good AD is because we want him to make those decisions, not be stuck with the decisions someone in an interim position has made.  we're talking about the biggest decisions an AD can make, not what to do with the rowing coach.  it could set the department back if the new AD comes in, hates oscar's guts and yet is stuck with him b/c goEMAW decided that the decision needed to be made without him.

I took Pete's post to mean that if Myers wants oscar fired, then oscar will be fired, new AD pending or not.


Yep.  I don't know what else an interim AD does, but I do know that the number one thing they do do, is do what the eff they are told to do.

Now, I happen to think Myers will stay out of it.  I have zero knowledge, obviously.

Offline renocat

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #322 on: March 16, 2017, 06:28:57 PM »
What do we do if someone snatches our Oscar from us?  This would be pickle.

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #323 on: March 16, 2017, 07:20:34 PM »
Veatch's job is to do what his boss tells him to do.  Just like any employee.

um, ok.  we want our full time AD to assess, hire and fire.  we do not want him to inherit a coach in oscar's position.  the reason why we want a good AD is because we want him to make those decisions, not be stuck with the decisions someone in an interim position has made.  we're talking about the biggest decisions an AD can make, not what to do with the rowing coach.  it could set the department back if the new AD comes in, hates oscar's guts and yet is stuck with him b/c goEMAW decided that the decision needed to be made without him.

I took Pete's post to mean that if Myers wants oscar fired, then oscar will be fired, new AD pending or not.


Yep.  I don't know what else an interim AD does, but I do know that the number one thing they do do, is do what the eff they are told to do.

Now, I happen to think Myers will stay out of it.  I have zero knowledge, obviously.

yeah, i guess it never occurred to me that employees do what their bosses tell them to :dunno:


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Offline Pete

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Re: Daily Update On If oscar Weber Is Fired Yet And, If Not, Why Not
« Reply #324 on: March 16, 2017, 07:22:13 PM »
You seemed like maybe it occurred to you that they do what message board posters say, because otherwise I have no idea what you were upset about.